inoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:32 AMas i said many times before scout is not nearly as bad as some people say... just stop specing 50 bow and get a descent melee spec like the other archer classes....
27 bow is all you need
make use of snare and ASR styles
lure ppl to waste purge on numb
get high moblock
then go kick ass
they are some very good scouts out there that alrdy manage to do that, but people keep complaining instead of specing the right way
Tamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:01 AMinoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:32 AMas i said many times before scout is not nearly as bad as some people say... just stop specing 50 bow and get a descent melee spec like the other archer classes....
27 bow is all you need
make use of snare and ASR styles
lure ppl to waste purge on numb
get high moblock
then go kick ass
they are some very good scouts out there that alrdy manage to do that, but people keep complaining instead of specing the right way
I mostly agree. Too many cry babies regarding the Scout class.
Altough I think 35 Bow is also a viable option. But more is definitely a waste of spec points. So min. 27 and max. 35 into Bow.
The only complain I can understand is the recent charge item nerf combined with the selfbuff buff. Which basically nerfed the scout twice compared to his two counterparts.
Assasins will be you primary opponents. They will just disease and perma snare you to death so your snare style is useless. If you have to rely on a numb, thats already implies that your opponent is not really good.inoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:32 AMmake use of snare and ASR styles
lure ppl to waste purge on numb
then go kick ass
Scouts speccing between 27 and 35 bow do not hit like a truck...inoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:22 AMTamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:01 AMinoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:32 AMas i said many times before scout is not nearly as bad as some people say... just stop specing 50 bow and get a descent melee spec like the other archer classes....
27 bow is all you need
make use of snare and ASR styles
lure ppl to waste purge on numb
get high moblock
then go kick ass
they are some very good scouts out there that alrdy manage to do that, but people keep complaining instead of specing the right way
I mostly agree. Too many cry babies regarding the Scout class.
Altough I think 35 Bow is also a viable option. But more is definitely a waste of spec points. So min. 27 and max. 35 into Bow.
The only complain I can understand is the recent charge item nerf combined with the selfbuff buff. Which basically nerfed the scout twice compared to his two counterparts.
still scouts hit like a truck with their bow and have descent blockchance
inoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:22 AMTamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:01 AMinoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:32 AMas i said many times before scout is not nearly as bad as some people say... just stop specing 50 bow and get a descent melee spec like the other archer classes....
27 bow is all you need
make use of snare and ASR styles
lure ppl to waste purge on numb
get high moblock
then go kick ass
they are some very good scouts out there that alrdy manage to do that, but people keep complaining instead of specing the right way
I mostly agree. Too many cry babies regarding the Scout class.
Altough I think 35 Bow is also a viable option. But more is definitely a waste of spec points. So min. 27 and max. 35 into Bow.
The only complain I can understand is the recent charge item nerf combined with the selfbuff buff. Which basically nerfed the scout twice compared to his two counterparts.
still scouts hit like a truck with their bow and have descent blockchance
Tamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 12:02 PMinoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:22 AMTamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:01 AMI mostly agree. Too many cry babies regarding the Scout class.
Altough I think 35 Bow is also a viable option. But more is definitely a waste of spec points. So min. 27 and max. 35 into Bow.
The only complain I can understand is the recent charge item nerf combined with the selfbuff buff. Which basically nerfed the scout twice compared to his two counterparts.
still scouts hit like a truck with their bow and have descent blockchance
Wrong, a Ranger has access to the same 5.5 Speed Bow, has more Qui due to Selfbuff and has the Dmg Add advantage. If you compare same Spec+Item+RR he definitely hits harder (and is faster). Scout still has a little range advantage. But of course the Scout has other neat tools.
keen wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 11:19 AMAssasins will be you primary opponents. They will just disease and perma snare you to death so your snare style is useless. If you have to rely on a numb, thats already implies that your opponent is not really good.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 1:14 PMkeen wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 11:19 AMAssasins will be you primary opponents. They will just disease and perma snare you to death so your snare style is useless. If you have to rely on a numb, thats already implies that your opponent is not really good.
If assassins are your primary opponent you are playing to your weaknesses instead of your strength.
Why would anyone play an assassin that have almost no ranged damage capabilities, if there was an option of being equally strong in melee but also have ranged capabilities additionally?
inoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 12:55 PMTamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 12:02 PMinoeth wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:22 AMstill scouts hit like a truck with their bow and have descent blockchance
Wrong, a Ranger has access to the same 5.5 Speed Bow, has more Qui due to Selfbuff and has the Dmg Add advantage. If you compare same Spec+Item+RR he definitely hits harder (and is faster). Scout still has a little range advantage. But of course the Scout has other neat tools.
shouldnt they have access to 5.7 bows aswell? i did not say harder than rangers.
Sayuri wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 1:52 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 1:14 PMkeen wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 11:19 AMAssasins will be you primary opponents. They will just disease and perma snare you to death so your snare style is useless. If you have to rely on a numb, thats already implies that your opponent is not really good.
If assassins are your primary opponent you are playing to your weaknesses instead of your strength.
Why would anyone play an assassin that have almost no ranged damage capabilities, if there was an option of being equally strong in melee but also have ranged capabilities additionally?
cause maybe you cant choose your opponent ? as scout if a sb/ns find you and purge you have 9,99/10 to die and even if you speak about your strat to use numb let me say that vs a good sb/ns you die before you can slam him and if you think block chance are awesome let me remind you that you have a -25% block chance vs DW so even with 50+15 and mob 9 you will not have 40% block rate
Sayuri wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 1:52 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 1:14 PMkeen wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 11:19 AMAssasins will be you primary opponents. They will just disease and perma snare you to death so your snare style is useless. If you have to rely on a numb, thats already implies that your opponent is not really good.
If assassins are your primary opponent you are playing to your weaknesses instead of your strength.
Why would anyone play an assassin that have almost no ranged damage capabilities, if there was an option of being equally strong in melee but also have ranged capabilities additionally?
cause maybe you cant choose your opponent ? as scout if a sb/ns find you and purge you have 9,99/10 to die and even if you speak about your strat to use numb let me say that vs a good sb/ns you die before you can slam him and if you think block chance are awesome let me remind you that you have a -25% block chance vs DW so even with 50+15 and mob 9 you will not have 40% block rate
Tamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 2:05 PMThe only archer change I would really like (besides the already done stealth change) is to buff the Crit Shot. It's so ridicolous how many times you get unstealthed while critting and loose all your surprise advantage. Critshot should never unstealth and give a penetrate bonus by reducing block/evade by half.
well i never said that a scout should have it all. Achers should stay archers, so mainly an adding char for me. with the current improvements of ranger and hunter they are not in line with that anymore and could kill an assassin which a scout defenitly cant. so i d vote for tune down ranger and hunter so they dont have these cookie cutter abilities you are pointing out.Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 1:14 PMkeen wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 11:19 AMAssasins will be you primary opponents. They will just disease and perma snare you to death so your snare style is useless. If you have to rely on a numb, thats already implies that your opponent is not really good.
If assassins are your primary opponent you are playing to your weaknesses instead of your strength.
Why would anyone play an assassin that have almost no ranged damage capabilities, if there was an option of being equally strong in melee but also have ranged capabilities additionally?
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 2:14 PMTamy wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 2:05 PMThe only archer change I would really like (besides the already done stealth change) is to buff the Crit Shot. It's so ridicolous how many times you get unstealthed while critting and loose all your surprise advantage. Critshot should never unstealth and give a penetrate bonus by reducing block/evade by half.
I am torn on critshot never destealthing...if stealth was a prerequisite it would be different (is the chance dependant only on stealth specc or also bowspecc btw?)
i agree though that any arrow fired from stealth should have a bonus against evade/block. Completely removing the defense would be too much, but cutting it half seems reasonable and would make sense (not that realism should be a deciding balance factor, but it is nice if buffs follow logic on top of creating better balance)
keen wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 2:17 PMwell i never said that a scout should have it all. Achers should stay archers, so mainly an adding char for me. with the current improvements of ranger and hunter they are not in line with that anymore and could kill an assassin which a scout defenitly cant. so i d vote for tune down ranger and hunter so they dont have these cookie cutter abilities you are pointing out.Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 1:14 PMkeen wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 11:19 AMAssasins will be you primary opponents. They will just disease and perma snare you to death so your snare style is useless. If you have to rely on a numb, thats already implies that your opponent is not really good.
If assassins are your primary opponent you are playing to your weaknesses instead of your strength.
Why would anyone play an assassin that have almost no ranged damage capabilities, if there was an option of being equally strong in melee but also have ranged capabilities additionally?
being fixed.
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 2:57 PMin these archer threads people keep bringing up the topic of not being able to beat assassins...that's when i chime in with that question
i don't get why growthrates, envenom, evade is brought up in response, when noone ever mentioned it before.
I did not respond to someone saying: "i can't beat assassins that don't use critstyles and don't poison their weapons" with "yeah well, that wouldn't make sense since they are melee and you have range"
Peoples perception of how strong assassins are in melee, and how archers get beaten already include the whole package assassins have to offer. That's how they get beaten and changing that would not be a good idea, since that is exaclty the point. Assassins get melee speclines and high evade and therefor are much stronger in melee while archers get bowline making them infintely stronger at range
Your point would only make sense if i was saying things akin to: why are archers on the same damage table as assassins, please lower their damage table since they are not a melee class. THAT would be easily countered by mentioning it isn't about dmg tables it is about speclines and you get much more things in melee than just a dmg-table
and btw. plenty of good archers preload arrows/critshots when they assume an assasin around...if you never shoot an arrow at an assassin in a stealth engagement, then i am sorry, but you are not utilizing what your class has to offer
Sepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 2:57 PMin these archer threads people keep bringing up the topic of not being able to beat assassins...that's when i chime in with that question
i don't get why growthrates, envenom, evade is brought up in response, when noone ever mentioned it before.
I did not respond to someone saying: "i can't beat assassins that don't use critstyles and don't poison their weapons" with "yeah well, that wouldn't make sense since they are melee and you have range"
Peoples perception of how strong assassins are in melee, and how archers get beaten already include the whole package assassins have to offer. That's how they get beaten and changing that would not be a good idea, since that is exaclty the point. Assassins get melee speclines and high evade and therefor are much stronger in melee while archers get bowline making them infintely stronger at range
Your point would only make sense if i was saying things akin to: why are archers on the same damage table as assassins, please lower their damage table since they are not a melee class. THAT would be easily countered by mentioning it isn't about dmg tables it is about speclines and you get much more things in melee than just a dmg-table
and btw. plenty of good archers preload arrows/critshots when they assume an assasin around...if you never shoot an arrow at an assassin in a stealth engagement, then i am sorry, but you are not utilizing what your class has to offer
Sayuri wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 3:26 PMstill dont understand why you are crying ? we are all know that bow spec sux like hell i m 38+15 bow and i miss my crit shot.... yes that is fu.cking possible... 0,34% .... how ? no idea or crit shot got evaded by skald for example with 5% chance etc there are so many prob with bow spec, scout got shield instead of buff line but with nf RA and purge 5 without zephir etc its a free gangbang to the scout, you know that hunter and ranger can up their buff and POTION buff with a RA ?
cere2 wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 3:34 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 2:57 PMin these archer threads people keep bringing up the topic of not being able to beat assassins...that's when i chime in with that question
i don't get why growthrates, envenom, evade is brought up in response, when noone ever mentioned it before.
I did not respond to someone saying: "i can't beat assassins that don't use critstyles and don't poison their weapons" with "yeah well, that wouldn't make sense since they are melee and you have range"
Peoples perception of how strong assassins are in melee, and how archers get beaten already include the whole package assassins have to offer. That's how they get beaten and changing that would not be a good idea, since that is exaclty the point. Assassins get melee speclines and high evade and therefor are much stronger in melee while archers get bowline making them infintely stronger at range
Your point would only make sense if i was saying things akin to: why are archers on the same damage table as assassins, please lower their damage table since they are not a melee class. THAT would be easily countered by mentioning it isn't about dmg tables it is about speclines and you get much more things in melee than just a dmg-table
and btw. plenty of good archers preload arrows/critshots when they assume an assasin around...if you never shoot an arrow at an assassin in a stealth engagement, then i am sorry, but you are not utilizing what your class has to offer
Like I said, they are not asking for melee improvements. Bow improvements.
And the fact that I don't always stand there with my pecker in my hand pre-loading all day on a bridge makes you think I am not utilizing my class?
The point I am making here is you chime in on every archer thread that asks for improvements with the same response.
The why would anyone play assassin if they can have the same strength in melee and have ranged.
You are making a statement that doesn't seem to fit in any of the threads. You said this same exact thing in the stealth detection thread too. That archers shouldn't have same detection range. Why? How does that apply? Did everyone quit playing assassin's because they changed that? Nope. And guess what....they won't if archers get a reason to spec past 35 bow either.
No one is asking for archers to be stronger than an assassin in melee. We know in melee we are at disadvantage. We are asking for a reason to spec higher than 35 in bow.
Yeah archers have the best stealth detection now. That was a fun day and many followed.
?? The change to archer stealth detection brought them to parity with assassins, so unless there has been a change to stealth that I have missed, archers are no better than assassins where stealth detection is concerned.Turano wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 6:52 PMYeah archers have the best stealth detection now. That was a fun day and many followed.
Instead of taking away the detect bonus of assas vs archers they give archers highest detect against anything
Link : 22nd of May Patch- archers now have the same detection range against archers and assassins as assassins have against archers
Yay another one that did not understand the custom stealth changes.Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:08 PM?? The change to archer stealth detection brought them to parity with assassins, so unless there has been a change to stealth that I have missed, archers are no better than assassins where stealth detection is concerned.
Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:08 PM?? The change to archer stealth detection brought them to parity with assassins, so unless there has been a change to stealth that I have missed, archers are no better than assassins where stealth detection is concerned.Turano wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 6:52 PMYeah archers have the best stealth detection now. That was a fun day and many followed.Sepplord wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 6:56 AMRecently the range at which archers detect Assassins was increased. Dont remember the Patch Date though
Instead of taking away the detect bonus of assas vs archers they give archers highest detect against anything
Turano wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:13 PMYay another one that did not understand the custom stealth changes.Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:08 PM?? The change to archer stealth detection brought them to parity with assassins, so unless there has been a change to stealth that I have missed, archers are no better than assassins where stealth detection is concerned.
Assassins can see archers at 250 units range.
Assassins can see other assassins at 125 units range.
Archer can now see both archers and assassins at 250 units range.
Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:17 PMTurano wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:13 PMYay another one that did not understand the custom stealth changes.Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:08 PM?? The change to archer stealth detection brought them to parity with assassins, so unless there has been a change to stealth that I have missed, archers are no better than assassins where stealth detection is concerned.
Assassins can see archers at 250 units range.
Assassins can see other assassins at 125 units range.
Archer can now see both archers and assassins at 250 units range.
Point me to an announcement that confirms that, I have literally just edited my post with a link to the announcement that archers and assassins have the same stealth detection range, so unless you can provide said link, it looks like it isyou that does not understand the custom stealth rules.
Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:17 PMPoint me to an announcement that confirms that, I have literally just edited my post with a link to the announcement that archers and assassins have the same stealth detection range, so unless you can provide said link, it looks like it isyou that does not understand the custom stealth rules.
It says Archers can see assassins at the same range that assassins can see archers...Turano wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:21 PMHejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:17 PMPoint me to an announcement that confirms that, I have literally just edited my post with a link to the announcement that archers and assassins have the same stealth detection range, so unless you can provide said link, it looks like it isyou that does not understand the custom stealth rules.
-archers now have the same detection range against archers and assassins as assassins have against archers
Did you even read the patch note you quote as source? It sais exactly what I just told you
How do archers have the best detection rate? If the two stealthers in an area are archer and assassin, both will see each other at the same range (depending on movement speed). Admittedly I thought that the assassin v assassin detection rate had also also been changed.Yeah archers have the best stealth detection now.
The logical thing would have been to take away the assassins' detection bonus so all stealthers can see each other at 125 units range, but that would have been too easy of a solution to implement I guessHejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:32 PMUp until now I thought they had all been brought to parity as that would have been the logical thing to do...
I agree, it makes absolutely no sense to have the current system.Turano wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:40 PMThe logical thing would have been to take away the assassins' detection bonus so all stealthers can see each other at 125 units range, but that would have been too easy of a solution to implement I guessHejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:32 PMUp until now I thought they had all been brought to parity as that would have been the logical thing to do...
gruenesschaf
Hejjin wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 7:43 PMI agree, it makes absolutely no sense to have the current system.
yes it's some more, but people know the 125/250 so I use these. havn't measured how long the range really is but it's quite a bit largergruenesschaf wrote: ↑Thu 27 Jun 2019 8:09 PMBy the way while the relative distances are correct, it hasn't been 125 or 250 since October 15th.
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