Stop listening to the whiners. Do not turn this server into Live.

About the planned changes (especially to styles)
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Fri 27 Mar 2020 3:02 PM by mattymc

Probably too late --- we are already down that rabbit hole.....

Fri 27 Mar 2020 3:39 PM by tyrantanic

They're far away from Live. You don't have to worry about that. Also, styles were changed before Broadsword took over (https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/patch-notes), specifically patches 1.91 and 1.92. I agree that they should avoid listening to whiners. There is so much here that you could get drunk just from reading.

Fri 27 Mar 2020 4:42 PM by Isavyr

FWIW, I am a fan of most of the changes.

RvR Tasks --> great
New Frontiers -> great for EU time (too zergy otherwise). Still needs more work though.
New RAs -> Great, no more GP and volatile RA ability swings. Current timers more reasonable
Friar, Thane, Paladin, Champ, Wizard buffs -- great
Clear Nearsight -- great
Lutes on Minstrels + Bards -- great
Account vault -- great
Realm-wide crafting -- great
Crafting macros -- great
Relatively speedy character leveling, solo or otherwise -- great
Feather path to end-game gear -- great

The list goes on. There are so many features to this server I wouldn't even consider another. It's not perfect, but then, some people like classic DAOC b/c its broken, and phoenix is removing things that are broken.

I haven't played Live since 2005 so I don't know how many of these are from Live, but I cannot damn a thing just because it's live-like. Most of these are huge QOL upgrades or better balancing while still maintaining classic roles/RvR dynamics.

Fri 27 Mar 2020 9:53 PM by inoeth

dont feed the troll, he doesnt even play here

Fri 27 Mar 2020 11:35 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 9:53 PM
dont feed the troll, he doesnt even play here

Says the troll who literally follows me from post to post in order to troll me lol. Dude, you are so pathetic. Don't you have a life outside of this game and these forums? Go outside, get some air. I'm sure it's getting pretty dank in your cave

Sat 28 Mar 2020 1:44 AM by easytoremember

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 4:42 PM
FWIW, I am a fan of most of the changes.

Account vault -- great
Realm-wide crafting -- great
Crafting macros -- great
Relatively speedy character leveling, solo or otherwise -- great
Feather path to end-game gear -- great

Those have nothing to do with OP or to Broadsword butchering Live

Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:10 PM by Razur Ur

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 4:42 PM
FWIW, I am a fan of most of the changes.

RvR Tasks --> great
New Frontiers -> great for EU time (too zergy otherwise). Still needs more work though.
New RAs -> Great, no more GP and volatile RA ability swings. Current timers more reasonable
Friar, Thane, Paladin,Champ, Wizard buffs -- great
Clear Nearsight -- great
Lutes on Minstrels + Bards -- great
Account vault -- great
Realm-wide crafting -- great
Crafting macros -- great
Relatively speedy character leveling, solo or otherwise -- great
Feather path to end-game gear -- great

The list goes on. There are so many features to this server I wouldn't even consider another. It's not perfect, but then, some people like classic DAOC b/c its broken, and phoenix is removing things that are broken.

I haven't played Live since 2005 so I don't know how many of these are from Live, but I cannot damn a thing just because it's live-like. Most of these are huge QOL upgrades or better balancing while still maintaining classic roles/RvR dynamics.

What CHAMP got any BUFFED? RLY tell me one BUFF plz ;-)

and forget no disease immunity this is not great!

Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:21 PM by Isavyr

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:10 PM
What CHAMP got any BUFFED? RLY tell me one BUFF plz ;-)

Insta debuffs no longer cost endurance.

Disease immunity would be disgusting and totally wreck the melee vs caster balance.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:28 PM by Razur Ur

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:21 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:10 PM
What CHAMP got any BUFFED? RLY tell me one BUFF plz ;-)

Insta debuffs no longer cost endurance.

Disease immunity would be disgusting and totally wreck the melee vs caster balance.

LoL thx that the debuffs dont cost endurance more but hey champ had normaly endureduce chant you notice anything? this is
not rly a buff and disease immunity timer wrecks not rly the meele vs caster balance! a 20 second immunity would reach,
but no immunity and over one minutes duration is a joke and do it mid groups very strong with shaman. othersides
introduce cl disease for all and this game is again fair for all realms.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:02 PM by

gruenesschaf

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:10 PM
What CHAMP got any BUFFED? RLY tell me one BUFF plz ;-)

The champ debuff value scaling up based on the types of buffs on the target, originally this was a bug sometime between 1.7x and 1.9x but has been done here as a champ buff.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:35 PM by Isavyr

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:28 PM
hey champ had normaly endureduce chant you notice anything?

This is a classic-based server--no endurance chant for champion. Champion could probably be removed from having power costs because they are primarily cooldown based (and therefore the power pool serves no real purpose, imo). But anyway, there are several small tweaks that could be made to a number of classes. Ultimately, this product is still much more balanced than any classic server ever was.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:09 PM by Loki

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:02 PM
The champ debuff value scaling up based on the types of buffs on the target, originally this was a bug sometime between 1.7x and 1.9x but has been done here as a champ buff.

Maybe its time to revisit that change, since the buff potions and charges give so little stats now . Feels unrealistic to get reduced to a lvl 40 character each time I meet a champ. Over the top self buffs with over the top debuffs, a bit too much.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 7:47 AM by Razur Ur

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:35 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:28 PM
hey champ had normaly endureduce chant you notice anything?

This is a classic-based server--no endurance chant for champion. Champion could probably be removed from having power costs because they are primarily cooldown based (and therefore the power pool serves no real purpose, imo). But anyway, there are several small tweaks that could be made to a number of classes. Ultimately, this product is still much more balanced than any classic server ever was.

Sorry but this phönix server have nothing to do with a classic server and for me is this server a custom server without TOA and Laby Addons and there is
not fault to ask after somethings reworks for the single class how like live server for more classes balance.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 8:17 AM by Razur Ur

Loki wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:09 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:02 PM
The champ debuff value scaling up based on the types of buffs on the target, originally this was a bug sometime between 1.7x and 1.9x but has been done here as a champ buff.
Maybe its time to revisit that change, since the buff potions and charges give so little stats now . Feels unrealistic to get reduced to a lvl 40 character each time I meet a champ. Over the top self buffs with over the top debuffs, a bit too much.

rly? you forget to say that a champ without ra bashing the most 1vs1 lose! plz explain us not that the champion is to strong for 1vs1. I mean the champion need
buff for more group available and not for more solo op and group endureduce chant is not op for solo but nice to have for hib tank groups and with
Acuity Debuff is the same. The most 1vs1 fights have a champ vs stealther, skalds or minstrel and rly rare fights vs caster and btw vs the most caster have
a champ no chance how bd, kabba, sm, sorc, theurg this classes have all much cc utility or strong pets.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:17 AM by Cadebrennus

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 7:47 AM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:35 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:28 PM
hey champ had normaly endureduce chant you notice anything?

This is a classic-based server--no endurance chant for champion. Champion could probably be removed from having power costs because they are primarily cooldown based (and therefore the power pool serves no real purpose, imo). But anyway, there are several small tweaks that could be made to a number of classes. Ultimately, this product is still much more balanced than any classic server ever was.

Sorry but this phönix server have nothing to do with a classic server and for me is this server a custom server without TOA and Laby Addons and there is
not fault to ask after somethings reworks for the single class how like live server for more classes balance.

Asking for too much at the expense of others = whining

Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:21 AM by Razur Ur

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:17 AM
Asking for too much at the expense of others = whining

The whining starting with the first change on a class ;-) and hey i missing
so much on my champion what this class have on live server and why
not whining if i see that thane got many love and champ not ;-).

Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:27 AM by Cadebrennus

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:21 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:17 AM
Asking for too much at the expense of others = whining

The whining starting with the first change on a class ;-) and hey i missing
so much on my champion what this class have on live server and why
not whining if i see that thane got many love and champ not ;-).

I agree that it may seem that Champs don't have enough to contribute to groups but I think that has as much to do with the players as it does with the class. It's the same reasoning that people thought that Archers on Live (before August 2016) didn't bring anything to a visible group until I started running one with a visible group consistently. After a while they finally started running one or two Archers (both of the other realms) to counter our group.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:39 AM by Razur Ur

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:27 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:21 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:17 AM
Asking for too much at the expense of others = whining

The whining starting with the first change on a class ;-) and hey i missing
so much on my champion what this class have on live server and why
not whining if i see that thane got many love and champ not ;-).

I agree that it may seem that Champs don't have enough to contribute to groups but I think that has as much to do with the players as it does with the class. It's the same reasoning that people thought that Archers on Live (before August 2016) didn't bring anything to a visible group until I started running one with a visible group consistently. After a while they finally started running one or two Archers (both of the other realms) to counter our group.

I want only saying that nobody need a champ in a group, he have not rly special things for a group. A bm can better peeling and have good dmg too and valewalker
doing most dmg with meele and the champion is reduced to his debuffs only and warrior is better guarder. i wont saying that i get not a group with my champ
but if i get group then more throught connection and not because of this classes. hope you under what i typing ^^.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 10:26 PM by Cadebrennus

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:39 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:27 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:21 AM
The whining starting with the first change on a class ;-) and hey i missing
so much on my champion what this class have on live server and why
not whining if i see that thane got many love and champ not ;-).

I agree that it may seem that Champs don't have enough to contribute to groups but I think that has as much to do with the players as it does with the class. It's the same reasoning that people thought that Archers on Live (before August 2016) didn't bring anything to a visible group until I started running one with a visible group consistently. After a while they finally started running one or two Archers (both of the other realms) to counter our group.

I want only saying that nobody need a champ in a group, he have not rly special things for a group. A bm can better peeling and have good dmg too and valewalker
doing most dmg with meele and the champion is reduced to his debuffs only and warrior is better guarder. i wont saying that i get not a group with my champ
but if i get group then more throught connection and not because of this classes. hope you under what i typing ^^.

I know English isn't your first language so no worries. It took me some time to get my Visi Ranger into Visi groups, but eventually it became a regular thing, even with people who didn't know me that well. It's up to those of us who love a particular class to play those classes to their fullest potential, and go outside of "the meta." I'm sure if you're good on your Champ, know how to play in a group (and not just solo), you can be more valuable than a cookie cutter BM who only knows how to play exactly how he's told.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 2:38 PM by mattymc

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 3:39 PM
They're far away from Live. You don't have to worry about that. Also, styles were changed before Broadsword took over (https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/patch-notes), specifically patches 1.91 and 1.92. I agree that they should avoid listening to whiners. There is so much here that you could get drunk just from reading.

I hate to break it to ya, but in all the important ways this Phoenix has deteriorated into LIVE.... DAOC s supposed to be a 3 realm fight for supremacy of the respective realms ---- it is now a PvE for RP <read TASK> while your own realm BURNS, do whatever to get RP except ACTUALLY playing the GAME <which is the hardest and least profitable way to get RP> slide to the biggest number and run over whatever you can find that is smaller than you bore fest --- sound like anything -- oh yeah, LIVE.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 6:33 PM by Cadebrennus

mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 2:38 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 3:39 PM
They're far away from Live. You don't have to worry about that. Also, styles were changed before Broadsword took over (https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/patch-notes), specifically patches 1.91 and 1.92. I agree that they should avoid listening to whiners. There is so much here that you could get drunk just from reading.

I hate to break it to ya, but in all the important ways this Phoenix has deteriorated into LIVE.... DAOC s supposed to be a 3 realm fight for supremacy of the respective realms ---- it is now a PvE for RP <read TASK> while your own realm BURNS, do whatever to get RP except ACTUALLY playing the GAME <which is the hardest and least profitable way to get RP> slide to the biggest number and run over whatever you can find that is smaller than you bore fest --- sound like anything -- oh yeah, LIVE.

It's a slippery slope here and they've been sliding for a long time now

Thu 2 Apr 2020 6:50 PM by Isavyr

Really, complaining about task? Jesus Christeth.

Go play Uthgard with your fellow 12 players if you think classic mechanics are awesome. Otherwise hopefully you can admit that strictly classic is unsustainable and changes are necessary.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 8:51 PM by Nunki

While it is important to not listen to flames, it is more important to ignore those entirely who don't even play on this server anymore!

Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:38 PM by tyrantanic

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 6:33 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 2:38 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 3:39 PM
They're far away from Live. You don't have to worry about that. Also, styles were changed before Broadsword took over (https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/patch-notes), specifically patches 1.91 and 1.92. I agree that they should avoid listening to whiners. There is so much here that you could get drunk just from reading.

I hate to break it to ya, but in all the important ways this Phoenix has deteriorated into LIVE.... DAOC s supposed to be a 3 realm fight for supremacy of the respective realms ---- it is now a PvE for RP <read TASK> while your own realm BURNS, do whatever to get RP except ACTUALLY playing the GAME <which is the hardest and least profitable way to get RP> slide to the biggest number and run over whatever you can find that is smaller than you bore fest --- sound like anything -- oh yeah, LIVE.

It's a slippery slope here and they've been sliding for a long time now

I'm under the impression neither of you have played Live recently and are unaware of how much the game has changed since Broadsword took over in 2014. The task system here is leagues better than anything Live has ever offered. Why? It focuses action to specific areas across the frontiers and allows for low RR characters to catch up. There's even incentive to solo, small man, and 8v8 which were never officially supported on Live. Relics actually change hands here on a daily basis. That hasn't happened on Live in YEARS.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But there's time and willingness from the developers to improve the server. I do not think the most recent task system is great; however, it is unlikely to remain the way it is considering the dev team actually listens to their community. This is something I think most players on this server take for granted. Phoenix is a freeshard. They're not beholden to anyone on how to run their server. Yet, they actively poll or seek out suggestions on what direction to take (or not) for future updates. The kicker here is that this volunteer group of developers does a better job at communicating and reading their playerbase than the official Live developers where you have to PAY to play.

You'll never fix the mentality behind the bigger fish eating the smaller fish in this game since it's an intrinsic outcome of sandbox RvR. They can impose harsher realm timers if the community truly believes that is a problem. However, lack of leadership or even poor leadership does more damage to any realm in terms of population than a realm timer (short or long) will ever do. Every day is different in RvR on this server, whether that be which Realm is being invaded or which Realm has the most relics or even which groups are roaming around looking for competitive fights. That's something I haven't seen in almost a decade.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:45 PM by Cadebrennus

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:38 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 6:33 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 2:38 PM
I hate to break it to ya, but in all the important ways this Phoenix has deteriorated into LIVE.... DAOC s supposed to be a 3 realm fight for supremacy of the respective realms ---- it is now a PvE for RP <read TASK> while your own realm BURNS, do whatever to get RP except ACTUALLY playing the GAME <which is the hardest and least profitable way to get RP> slide to the biggest number and run over whatever you can find that is smaller than you bore fest --- sound like anything -- oh yeah, LIVE.

It's a slippery slope here and they've been sliding for a long time now

I'm under the impression neither of you have played Live recently and are unaware of how much the game has changed since Broadsword took over in 2014. The task system here is leagues better than anything Live has ever offered. Why? It focuses action to specific areas across the frontiers and allows for low RR characters to catch up. There's even incentive to solo, small man, and 8v8 which were never officially supported on Live. Relics actually change hands here on a daily basis. That hasn't happened on Live in YEARS.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But there's time and willingness from the developers to improve the server. I do not think the most recent task system is great; however, it is unlikely to remain the way it is considering the dev team actually listens to their community. This is something I think most players on this server take for granted. Phoenix is a freeshard. They're not beholden to anyone on how to run their server. Yet, they actively poll or seek out suggestions on what direction to take (or not) for future updates. The kicker here is that this volunteer group of developers does a better job at communicating and reading their playerbase than the official Live developers where you have to PAY to play.

You'll never fix the mentality behind the bigger fish eating the smaller fish in this game since it's an intrinsic outcome of sandbox RvR. They can impose harsher realm timers if the community truly believes that is a problem. However, lack of leadership or even poor leadership does more damage to any realm in terms of population than a realm timer (short or long) will ever do. Every day is different in RvR on this server, whether that be which Realm is being invaded or which Realm has the most relics or even which groups are roaming around looking for competitive fights. That's something I haven't seen in almost a decade.

I agree with you 100% that this server is leagues better than Live. I know because I played Live until August 2016. I was also one of this server's biggest advocates until they started messing with the code just because they could, and not because they needed to.
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Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:21 PM by mattymc

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 10:38 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 6:33 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 2:38 PM
I hate to break it to ya, but in all the important ways this Phoenix has deteriorated into LIVE.... DAOC s supposed to be a 3 realm fight for supremacy of the respective realms ---- it is now a PvE for RP <read TASK> while your own realm BURNS, do whatever to get RP except ACTUALLY playing the GAME <which is the hardest and least profitable way to get RP> slide to the biggest number and run over whatever you can find that is smaller than you bore fest --- sound like anything -- oh yeah, LIVE.

It's a slippery slope here and they've been sliding for a long time now

I'm under the impression neither of you have played Live recently and are unaware of how much the game has changed since Broadsword took over in 2014. The task system here is leagues better than anything Live has ever offered. Why? It focuses action to specific areas across the frontiers and allows for low RR characters to catch up. There's even incentive to solo, small man, and 8v8 which were never officially supported on Live. Relics actually change hands here on a daily basis. That hasn't happened on Live in YEARS.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But there's time and willingness from the developers to improve the server. I do not think the most recent task system is great; however, it is unlikely to remain the way it is considering the dev team actually listens to their community. This is something I think most players on this server take for granted. Phoenix is a freeshard. They're not beholden to anyone on how to run their server. Yet, they actively poll or seek out suggestions on what direction to take (or not) for future updates. The kicker here is that this volunteer group of developers does a better job at communicating and reading their playerbase than the official Live developers where you have to PAY to play.

You'll never fix the mentality behind the bigger fish eating the smaller fish in this game since it's an intrinsic outcome of sandbox RvR. They can impose harsher realm timers if the community truly believes that is a problem. However, lack of leadership or even poor leadership does more damage to any realm in terms of population than a realm timer (short or long) will ever do. Every day is different in RvR on this server, whether that be which Realm is being invaded or which Realm has the most relics or even which groups are roaming around looking for competitive fights. That's something I haven't seen in almost a decade.

You would be quite incorrect --- moreover, you miss the point of what I wrote. The essence of the GAME has been lost unnecessarily imo --- Phoenix can and does do what it so chooses, that doesn't make it 'right', it DOES make it infinitely more responsive and responsible than LIVE -- which should be tremendously embarrassing for the DEVS who get paid to screw live up. Mentality is changed through the rewards and punishments of the game; imo again, that is lacking; it is pathetic that keeps are PvE'd based on who has the lleast numbers rather than trying to dethrone the current bully. That was always at the CORE of DAOC and THAT is what these DEVS have let slip --- just like live. Finally, tasks dont allow low RR characters to catch up, only playing more than the other guy does...realm rank is nice, but I have smeared many HIGH RR crappy players.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 12:05 AM by Isavyr

mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:21 PM
You would be quite incorrect --- moreover, you miss the point of what I wrote. The essence of the GAME has been lost unnecessarily imo

I don't think so. I think it's even more true to classic than classic. Hybrids lost their place in the meta because it was seen as irrelevant--but they were played in 2003 because people didn't know that and were optimistic it would change. Now they are played again for the first time in years on classic servers. Therefore, more classic than the last decade of "classic" servers.

mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:21 PM
Mentality is changed through the rewards and punishments of the game; imo again, that is lacking; it is pathetic that keeps are PvE'd based on who has the lleast numbers rather than trying to dethrone the current bully. That was always at the CORE of DAOC and THAT is what these DEVS have let slip

Truly no idea where you get your info. Every server I played on in 2002-2003 went after the weak realm in order to easily get DF or relics. This has always been the case--it's human nature. Maybe you're right and played on the one unicorn server where people confronted the man and didn't step on the weak party, but that's not representative of classic, as you believe--on the contrary.

You talking about people only attacking keeps due to task is also flatly wrong. Midgard just lost most of their keeps (last few hours) and it had nothing to do with task. As like in classic, it depends on who's leading. Pilzpower will regularly sweep a frontier without any task guiding him to do so.

I return to my point: this server is more classic than classic is.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 2:11 AM by

gruenesschaf

Our general stance is and has always been: 1.65 as the baseline and changes from there. Nothing more, nothing less.

The reason is quite simple:
1.65 was the last patch before toa, toa introduced loads of /use items and mls, aka adding many more abilities and this was continued with catacombs via the introduction of new classes and hence even more abilities.
While it can be argued if this was a change for the better or worse, nobody can really argue that it wasn't a rather big change in how the game played.

We did not choose 1.65 because we think 1.65 is a great patch, for some of us it's even quite the opposite, however we don't agree with the way (many) things were handled afterwards and hence the decision was to use 1.65 as the baseline and go from there.
As I wrote in some other thread(s), 1.65 has many many glaring issues and for lots of those live did indeed fix them in a reasonable way, other issues were fixed "by accident" / in a roundabout way / became obsolete due to the introduction of new things and hence their fix would not be applicable here. However, that doesn't mean that whatever they fixed (by accident or on purpose) wasn't actually an issue.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 2:45 AM by gotwqqd

Get rid of all /use items now

Fri 3 Apr 2020 2:46 AM by mattymc

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 12:05 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:21 PM
You would be quite incorrect --- moreover, you miss the point of what I wrote. The essence of the GAME has been lost unnecessarily imo

I don't think so. I think it's even more true to classic than classic. Hybrids lost their place in the meta because it was seen as irrelevant--but they were played in 2003 because people didn't know that and were optimistic it would change. Now they are played again for the first time in years on classic servers. Therefore, more classic than the last decade of "classic" servers.

mattymc wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:21 PM
Mentality is changed through the rewards and punishments of the game; imo again, that is lacking; it is pathetic that keeps are PvE'd based on who has the lleast numbers rather than trying to dethrone the current bully. That was always at the CORE of DAOC and THAT is what these DEVS have let slip

Truly no idea where you get your info. Every server I played on in 2002-2003 went after the weak realm in order to easily get DF or relics. This has always been the case--it's human nature. Maybe you're right and played on the one unicorn server where people confronted the man and didn't step on the weak party, but that's not representative of classic, as you believe--on the contrary.

You talking about people only attacking keeps due to task is also flatly wrong. Midgard just lost most of their keeps (last few hours) and it had nothing to do with task. As like in classic, it depends on who's leading. Pilzpower will regularly sweep a frontier without any task guiding him to do so.

I return to my point: this server is more classic than classic is.

Again, you confuse doing something to gain a realm advantage for your team, and working with an enemy that has taken YOUR toys as opposed to fighting them -- again, THE ESSENCE of the game. You can't take relics from someone who doesnt have them; the only reason is to farm RP, it sure isn't to FIGHT anyone. -- it does you no good to take a relic when you don't have your corresponding own. I have played this game since inception -- every realm, every style; my info is through experience and time is virtually every role possible in this game and live ... I have seen the declines and seen why; you can ignore the correlations as you wish....ask yourself what is the point of realms, relics in the first place --- it's a GAME construct, iss it too much to ask the game to reinforce that construct.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:07 AM by Isavyr

I don't know which comment you're addressing, and anyway, relics here move more than classic so it seems to be working fine.... maybe you can be more specific in where the problem is. I'm not able to understand.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 4:27 AM by Ceen

I have the same impression we are going down a slippery slope.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:34 PM by mattymc

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:07 AM
I don't know which comment you're addressing, and anyway, relics here move more than classic so it seems to be working fine.... maybe you can be more specific in where the problem is. I'm not able to understand.

I am addressing all your comments --- the game doesnt play as designed -- as this happens here, as it did on live, game play devolves and people leave --- you can dispute that, but the evidence supports it. The devs here STILL have the opportunity to stop the slide -- I just don't see them doing it.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:36 PM by Isavyr

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:34 PM
I am addressing all your comments --- the game doesnt play as designed -- as this happens here, as it did on live, game play devolves and people leave --- you can dispute that, but the evidence supports it. The devs here STILL have the opportunity to stop the slide -- I just don't see them doing it.

You haven't supported your point with one argument. Everything has been shown to be false, or even the opposite of what you claim. I don't see a slippery slope, or sliding into live, and if it exists, you certainly haven't shown it.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 6:05 PM by mattymc

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:36 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:34 PM
I am addressing all your comments --- the game doesnt play as designed -- as this happens here, as it did on live, game play devolves and people leave --- you can dispute that, but the evidence supports it. The devs here STILL have the opportunity to stop the slide -- I just don't see them doing it.

You haven't supported your point with one argument. Everything has been shown to be false, or even the opposite of what you claim. I don't see a slippery slope, or sliding into live, and if it exists, you certainly haven't shown it.

You saying "NO you're wrong' isn't proof of anything either, BTW, you have also not established any baseline nor used any facts to support your your assertions that all is right with the Phoenix world. In truth, there are meaningful population imbalances and other clear indicators of problems you choose to ignore or hand wave with a 'that is the way you have always seen it'....the kindest thing I can say is many see it in a totally different way and had vastly different experiences in their long participation with DAOC and the shards that have spawned from it.

You can continue to PvE your way to RP and feel good about yourself --- and you can shrug of when your wiped in an actual fight by whatever rationalizations you wish to make; if you enjoy doing so, fine --- enjoy....I would rather hope and encourage the Devs into making a concerted effort to reward competition between human players, the TRUEST hallmark of DAOC .

Fri 3 Apr 2020 7:18 PM by tyrantanic

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 6:05 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:36 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:34 PM
I am addressing all your comments --- the game doesnt play as designed -- as this happens here, as it did on live, game play devolves and people leave --- you can dispute that, but the evidence supports it. The devs here STILL have the opportunity to stop the slide -- I just don't see them doing it.

You haven't supported your point with one argument. Everything has been shown to be false, or even the opposite of what you claim. I don't see a slippery slope, or sliding into live, and if it exists, you certainly haven't shown it.

You saying "NO you're wrong' isn't proof of anything either, BTW, you have also not established any baseline nor used any facts to support your your assertions that all is right with the Phoenix world. In truth, there are meaningful population imbalances and other clear indicators of problems you choose to ignore or hand wave with a 'that is the way you have always seen it'....the kindest thing I can say is many see it in a totally different way and had vastly different experiences in their long participation with DAOC and the shards that have spawned from it.

You can continue to PvE your way to RP and feel good about yourself --- and you can shrug of when your wiped in an actual fight by whatever rationalizations you wish to make; if you enjoy doing so, fine --- enjoy....I would rather hope and encourage the Devs into making a concerted effort to reward competition between human players, the TRUEST hallmark of DAOC .

I find this very ironic since task RPs diminish with RR. Most zergs go after relics as opposed to chasing tasks from what I've seen. Yesterday, the US prime Mid BG chased around tasks all evening and earned less RPs than my PUG did roaming around. Yet, the Hib zerg attempted to get their relic back while the Albs defended. This clearly points to a leadership problem more than a game design issue, imo. You still earn more RPs by killing players than simply chasing tasks. The main exception here may be the maze task which I hope gets altered soon.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 11:53 PM by mattymc

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 7:18 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 6:05 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:36 PM
You haven't supported your point with one argument. Everything has been shown to be false, or even the opposite of what you claim. I don't see a slippery slope, or sliding into live, and if it exists, you certainly haven't shown it.

You saying "NO you're wrong' isn't proof of anything either, BTW, you have also not established any baseline nor used any facts to support your your assertions that all is right with the Phoenix world. In truth, there are meaningful population imbalances and other clear indicators of problems you choose to ignore or hand wave with a 'that is the way you have always seen it'....the kindest thing I can say is many see it in a totally different way and had vastly different experiences in their long participation with DAOC and the shards that have spawned from it.

You can continue to PvE your way to RP and feel good about yourself --- and you can shrug of when your wiped in an actual fight by whatever rationalizations you wish to make; if you enjoy doing so, fine --- enjoy....I would rather hope and encourage the Devs into making a concerted effort to reward competition between human players, the TRUEST hallmark of DAOC .

I find this very ironic since task RPs diminish with RR. Most zergs go after relics as opposed to chasing tasks from what I've seen. Yesterday, the US prime Mid BG chased around tasks all evening and earned less RPs than my PUG did roaming around. Yet, the Hib zerg attempted to get their relic back while the Albs defended. This clearly points to a leadership problem more than a game design issue, imo. You still earn more RPs by killing players than simply chasing tasks. The main exception here may be the maze task which I hope gets altered soon.

That's not irony -- nevertheless, zergs, as u call them, should go after relics, they SHOULDN't avoid each other, as the primarily EURO ones do nor should they AVOID getting their own back IOT avoid fighting a 'zerg' of equal size. The HIBB NA BG MAY have tried -- GOOD, they did what they should -- the MID NA BG spent the vast majority of the night cleaning up teheir realm from the ALB/HIBB PvE fest --- it is a LEADERSHIP problem and a DEVELOPER problem --- it's simply not where you think it is....btw, what were you doing to help ytour realm -- ahh yes, NOTHING....and that is fine in a healthy game, we don't have a healthy game.

Do what you wish --- but understand the problem<s>.....

Sun 5 Apr 2020 8:01 PM by tyrantanic

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 11:53 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 7:18 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 6:05 PM
You saying "NO you're wrong' isn't proof of anything either, BTW, you have also not established any baseline nor used any facts to support your your assertions that all is right with the Phoenix world. In truth, there are meaningful population imbalances and other clear indicators of problems you choose to ignore or hand wave with a 'that is the way you have always seen it'....the kindest thing I can say is many see it in a totally different way and had vastly different experiences in their long participation with DAOC and the shards that have spawned from it.

You can continue to PvE your way to RP and feel good about yourself --- and you can shrug of when your wiped in an actual fight by whatever rationalizations you wish to make; if you enjoy doing so, fine --- enjoy....I would rather hope and encourage the Devs into making a concerted effort to reward competition between human players, the TRUEST hallmark of DAOC .

I find this very ironic since task RPs diminish with RR. Most zergs go after relics as opposed to chasing tasks from what I've seen. Yesterday, the US prime Mid BG chased around tasks all evening and earned less RPs than my PUG did roaming around. Yet, the Hib zerg attempted to get their relic back while the Albs defended. This clearly points to a leadership problem more than a game design issue, imo. You still earn more RPs by killing players than simply chasing tasks. The main exception here may be the maze task which I hope gets altered soon.
That's not irony -- nevertheless, zergs, as u call them, should go after relics, they SHOULDN't avoid each other, as the primarily EURO ones do nor should they AVOID getting their own back IOT avoid fighting a 'zerg' of equal size. The HIBB NA BG MAY have tried -- GOOD, they did what they should -- the MID NA BG spent the vast majority of the night cleaning up teheir realm from the ALB/HIBB PvE fest --- it is a LEADERSHIP problem and a DEVELOPER problem --- it's simply not where you think it is....btw, what were you doing to help ytour realm -- ahh yes, NOTHING....and that is fine in a healthy game, we don't have a healthy game.

Do what you wish --- but understand the problem<s>.....

The problem(s) stem from the players. No developer can fix that without completely removing the sandbox aspect of RvR. You can blame the developers for not providing enough incentives for one playstyle but the players choose to pick the easiest thing to do in the game: /stick and maybe /attack the nearest target. This is a video game after all. Most people are playing to relax and have a good time. I won't deny that both EU Hib and Alb zergs are bad leaders as they appear to dodge each other (this was an issue on Live as well when zergs were a thing). However, I also won't pity the EU Mid BG since they take the insanity approach in hopes that something will change. Regarding my contribution to the "realm war", I aide in relic attempts, patrol my own realms XP areas to kill gankers, open ports when needed, etc. I also choose to 8v8 or small man when I can because this game allows for variety in playstyle which keeps it from becoming stale. I love big fights but I also love small competitive fights. This game allows for both which isn't really offered anywhere else.

Yes, this game is in a healthy state on this server. You need only look at Live to see what an unhealthy state of the game looks like. They've seen an increase in population yet EU prime is still dominated by one BG that captures empty keeps or zergs down the few groups that roam because there's no opposing force. US prime rarely has keep fights as the action ends up being centralized on EV at towers instead. Relics are hoarded by one realm for months without either opposing realm attempting to get them back. Other playstyles are effectively dead unless you setup fights (solo and 8v8). The sad reality is, there are enough players currently on Live to make it reasonably healthy again but the majority of those players are waiting for something to happen. Very few players are proactive and that's really the crux of these problems regardless of what server one plays on. If you want something to change, then you need to take the initiative.

Sun 5 Apr 2020 8:32 PM by Quik

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 11:53 PM
it is a LEADERSHIP problem and a DEVELOPER problem

It is a playerbase problem, not so much a developer problem. The dev's can do everything in the book to create more balanced and equal play and try to create more incentives to RvR whether it is zerg or solo or 8man, but the final decision is the playerbase.

The players decide if they want to zerg and if they want to engage another zerg or not. The dev's can't force them and they shouldn't try.

Players will play how they want and they SHOULD be allowed to play how they want whether it is PvE or RvR or whatever.

Leadership is another issue for sure. Some people just have better ability to lead a BG then others, but all of them have their own agenda. One might want easy RP's via keep takes and another might want to directly attack another zerg, but the simple fact is that the players behind them determine what they truly do. If the players in 1 zerg don't want to attack another zerg, well that is again their choice. Leadership can direct it, and most of the time players will follow the directions to a degree, but if things start to go bad the zerg will quickly crumble and fall apart, so some zerg leaders just keep to the easy path ad go for RP's instead of possibly losing the zerg itself.

The Dev's of course can offer incentives, but the final decision lies in the players hands.

You really have no right to say players are playing right or wrong as that isn't your decision to make, every player has the right to play how they want within the rules of the game...are you Inoeth in disguise? You both seem to enjoy telling everyone else that they need to play how YOU want them too lol.

Sun 5 Apr 2020 11:14 PM by Nunki

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:34 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:07 AM
I don't know which comment you're addressing, and anyway, relics here move more than classic so it seems to be working fine.... maybe you can be more specific in where the problem is. I'm not able to understand.

I am addressing all your comments --- the game doesnt play as designed -- as this happens here, as it did on live, game play devolves and people leave --- you can dispute that, but the evidence supports it. The devs here STILL have the opportunity to stop the slide -- I just don't see them doing it.

This server is stable and healthy, as you can see here https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html .
A decline in population is natural, especially for a 20 year old game. If at all, the changes had a positive effect.

The majority of players want something that is fun, not neccessarily classic. They don't care how "you think it was designed for".
The essential idea of DAoC were Zerg keepfights, which we have hourly every day of the week.
If they want to brain-afk zerg, that's it. Not even because the RP outcome is good (which isn't the case anymore) but because it negatable with normal life.
You can hop on and off the Pilztrain as you want. Damn, every playstyle is supported and viable on this server.

Imbalances in realm population usually occure due to reliable or missing leadership, as you can see in EU Mid these days.
in average, there is NO real underdog realm. Relics change regulary. The colour of each FZ changes daily.

Well thought trough changes, as performed by the GM's of this server, are one reason why the population is kept healthy.
Everything they did so far was a success. Qol changes, the swith to NF and class balancing is amazing to be honest.
The current task system is a good try and will surely get further optimized.
The GM's are open minded, listening to their community in a healthy way and courageous enough to try out new things and that is essential for such an old game.

I honestly don't understand why people freek out or even care that much.
We had 6+ years of Classic Freeshards (Uth 1+2), additionally serveral years Classic on live.

Is is great to make something new out of this game and I don't even care if this server provides 10 years of stable meta or just 5 years of wild trials, because it is not my choice at all.
Those who invest their time to make this possible can decide what kind of vision they have for this server.

If you want to help this server, add constructive criticism in the designated threads.
A rant thread in Tavern is childish and unproduktiv.
You can help and lead the changes in a direction that you think is healthy for this server, but barely anyone cares of your interpretation of a perfect classic / designed as intebded server. 70% of the population purposely doing the exact opposite of what you think is right should show you the relevance of your rant.

New (even Classic) servers may come and even if not, I had a lot of fun. GM's thanks for your work!

Greetings

Fri 17 Apr 2020 11:41 PM by mattymc

Nunki wrote: ↑
Sun 5 Apr 2020 11:14 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:34 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 3:07 AM
I don't know which comment you're addressing, and anyway, relics here move more than classic so it seems to be working fine.... maybe you can be more specific in where the problem is. I'm not able to understand.

I am addressing all your comments --- the game doesnt play as designed -- as this happens here, as it did on live, game play devolves and people leave --- you can dispute that, but the evidence supports it. The devs here STILL have the opportunity to stop the slide -- I just don't see them doing it.
This server is stable and healthy, as you can see here https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html .
A decline in population is natural, especially for a 20 year old game. If at all, the changes had a positive effect.

The majority of players want something that is fun, not neccessarily classic. They don't care how "you think it was designed for".
The essential idea of DAoC were Zerg keepfights, which we have hourly every day of the week.
If they want to brain-afk zerg, that's it. Not even because the RP outcome is good (which isn't the case anymore) but because it negatable with normal life.
You can hop on and off the Pilztrain as you want. Damn, every playstyle is supported and viable on this server.

Imbalances in realm population usually occure due to reliable or missing leadership, as you can see in EU Mid these days.
in average, there is NO real underdog realm. Relics change regulary. The colour of each FZ changes daily.

Well thought trough changes, as performed by the GM's of this server, are one reason why the population is kept healthy.
Everything they did so far was a success. Qol changes, the swith to NF and class balancing is amazing to be honest.
The current task system is a good try and will surely get further optimized.
The GM's are open minded, listening to their community in a healthy way and courageous enough to try out new things and that is essential for such an old game.

I honestly don't understand why people freek out or even care that much.
We had 6+ years of Classic Freeshards (Uth 1+2), additionally serveral years Classic on live.

Is is great to make something new out of this game and I don't even care if this server provides 10 years of stable meta or just 5 years of wild trials, because it is not my choice at all.
Those who invest their time to make this possible can decide what kind of vision they have for this server.

If you want to help this server, add constructive criticism in the designated threads.
A rant thread in Tavern is childish and unproduktiv.
You can help and lead the changes in a direction that you think is healthy for this server, but barely anyone cares of your interpretation of a perfect classic / designed as intebded server. 70% of the population purposely doing the exact opposite of what you think is right should show you the relevance of your rant.

New (even Classic) servers may come and even if not, I had a lot of fun. GM's thanks for your work!

Greetings

Your definition of FIGHT is much different than mine or even any known dictionary --- this server basically mirrors live --- the population flows to the zerg or relics <even though they aren't that important>; the pop imbalances are horrid and are never addressed. I appreciate that the Devs listen -- but EXACTLY like live, they keep their head in the sand when it comes to gameplay. If you just wanna run around and plow people over or, occasionally have a decently close fight --- perhgaps it's for you. If you want DAOC as it was and COOULD be --- it has gone here too. Could it be fixed? IMHO, yes -- will they, ?????

Sat 18 Apr 2020 7:47 AM by Noashakra

The HP change, the crit change, the amnesia change, all of those were huges changes that were made without ral testing.
The crit change is the proof, with the planned change transforming itself in a huge nerf in 24h.
I think this server is going to the wrong direction I am afraid.

Tue 21 Apr 2020 9:37 PM by mattymc

Today 21 April middle of EURO Prime--- in mid, who has no relics -- Albs and hHbbs running around not fighting each other --- spam at Glen reported at 200 <Hibbs> --- not that many mids in Frontiers. A typical day -- but hey, everything is FINE --- other than Phoenix is EXACTLY like live. Oh well --- maybe PHOENIX GM's will actually do something....or will they?

Tue 21 Apr 2020 10:47 PM by Quik

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 9:37 PM
Oh well --- maybe PHOENIX GM's will actually do something....or will they?

Maybe the players will stop waiting on others to do this for them and do it themselves...

OR...if this is how those players want to play then let them play and stop trying to get the dev's to force them to play how they don't want...

Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:48 PM by mattymc

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 10:47 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 9:37 PM
Oh well --- maybe PHOENIX GM's will actually do something....or will they?

Maybe the players will stop waiting on others to do this for them and do it themselves...

OR...if this is how those players want to play then let them play and stop trying to get the dev's to force them to play how they don't want...

Every game has rules; every game has advantages and disadvantages; no game whose design is to be a 3 realm Player v player fight should reward people for being cowards and taking objectives that, for all intents and purposes, are undefended and then REWARDING for that action -- it's a game, not a gift...

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:09 AM by Quik

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:48 PM
it's a game, not a gift...

Exactly, its a game...

Let people do whatever they want. Play how you want.

If the game isn't working exactly how you want it might be time to move on, but you really have no right to get mad at people for playing however they want, especially on a F2P server....you aren't paying for the right to claim anything here.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:49 AM by mattymc

Quik wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:09 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:48 PM
it's a game, not a gift...

Exactly, its a game...

Let people do whatever they want. Play how you want.

If the game isn't working exactly how you want it might be time to move on, but you really have no right to get mad at people for playing however they want, especially on a F2P server....you aren't paying for the right to claim anything here.

So why have rules then -- why aren't all classes the exact same --shouldn't everyone have an 'I win' mode and get every reward possible for NOT doing what the game is designed to do ---- I mean isn't that what everyone wants --- why shouldn't everyone get what they want? Ohh, yeah -- then it wouldn't be a game.

The thread is about Not turning the server into LIVE --- sadly it is there when people don't actually compete; what we are seeing is a large part of what killed live.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 2:22 AM by Quik

mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:49 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:09 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:48 PM
it's a game, not a gift...

Exactly, its a game...

Let people do whatever they want. Play how you want.

If the game isn't working exactly how you want it might be time to move on, but you really have no right to get mad at people for playing however they want, especially on a F2P server....you aren't paying for the right to claim anything here.

So why have rules then -- why aren't all classes the exact same --shouldn't everyone have an 'I win' mode and get every reward possible for NOT doing what the game is designed to do ---- I mean isn't that what everyone wants --- why shouldn't everyone get what they want? Ohh, yeah -- then it wouldn't be a game.

The thread is about Not turning the server into LIVE --- sadly it is there when people don't actually compete; what we are seeing is a large part of what killed live.

I just have to shake my head here...

You seem to think the game should revolve around you and you should dictate the rules....I wish you luck on that

Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:42 PM by mattymc

Quik wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 2:22 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 1:49 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:09 AM
Exactly, its a game...

Let people do whatever they want. Play how you want.

If the game isn't working exactly how you want it might be time to move on, but you really have no right to get mad at people for playing however they want, especially on a F2P server....you aren't paying for the right to claim anything here.

So why have rules then -- why aren't all classes the exact same --shouldn't everyone have an 'I win' mode and get every reward possible for NOT doing what the game is designed to do ---- I mean isn't that what everyone wants --- why shouldn't everyone get what they want? Ohh, yeah -- then it wouldn't be a game.

The thread is about Not turning the server into LIVE --- sadly it is there when people don't actually compete; what we are seeing is a large part of what killed live.

I just have to shake my head here...

You seem to think the game should revolve around you and you should dictate the rules....I wish you luck on that

I return the shake -- is a game NOT competition? You seem to think a game should simply hand you whatever you want; I fear it is you who appears entitled.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 2:49 PM by Quik

Ok so lets clear up one thing because I refuse to have a discussion with anyone who wants to lie and make up crap which you have just done...

You show me ANYWHERE I asked the game to hand me what I want...ANYWHERE.

Go ahead, I'll wait because you can't. You are losing an argument so you need to lie and make crap up to try to make yourself look better.

I SAID games are for fun and for everyone and how THEY want to play. I NEVER said I hunt keeps or farm xpers or ask for anything free in this game. Personally I enjoy small man groups and I really love when zergs hit each other diretly. Farming keeps is boring as hell.

Now, once again, you SHOW me ANYWHERE I asked for anything to be given to me, or you have just become another voiceless whining player who thinks they are the sole voice in a game.

Anywhere at all would be great, lets see what kind of person you are because I have not accused you of anything other then what your posts specifically state which is that you want the game to be played a specific way and you have no desire to let others play how they want if it involves an easy way to farm RP's via just keeptakes. I hate that style as well but they have a choice to play that way and I have said this to you not ONCE did I ever make shit up.

So again, SHOW me ANYWHERE or you can just move on knowing you are simply a liar...

Wed 22 Apr 2020 3:21 PM by stewbeedoo

Holy triggered batman!

Wed 22 Apr 2020 8:16 PM by inoeth

i think its the "It's a game and a game is meant to be enjoyed by everyone, not just a select few who want everyone to play their way!" attitude you try to attach to yourself, but in reality you mean the opposite.

just my opinion discussing with you

Wed 22 Apr 2020 11:45 PM by mattymc

Quik wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 2:49 PM
Ok so lets clear up one thing because I refuse to have a discussion with anyone who wants to lie and make up crap which you have just done...

You show me ANYWHERE I asked the game to hand me what I want...ANYWHERE.

Go ahead, I'll wait because you can't. You are losing an argument so you need to lie and make crap up to try to make yourself look better.

I SAID games are for fun and for everyone and how THEY want to play. I NEVER said I hunt keeps or farm xpers or ask for anything free in this game. Personally I enjoy small man groups and I really love when zergs hit each other diretly. Farming keeps is boring as hell.

Now, once again, you SHOW me ANYWHERE I asked for anything to be given to me, or you have just become another voiceless whining player who thinks they are the sole voice in a game.

Anywhere at all would be great, lets see what kind of person you are because I have not accused you of anything other then what your posts specifically state which is that you want the game to be played a specific way and you have no desire to let others play how they want if it involves an easy way to farm RP's via just keeptakes. I hate that style as well but they have a choice to play that way and I have said this to you not ONCE did I ever make shit up.

So again, SHOW me ANYWHERE or you can just move on knowing you are simply a liar...

Sure, as soon as you show me where I said the game should revolve around me.

The game, as designed, allows for plenty of play styles --- but ALL of those styles are predicated on the PvP concept. Avoiding those fights in favor of running over guards or plowing over groups/BG's whatever with 2 to 3 or more times the number is senseless and counter to the health of the game; doesn't mean people aren't going to do it, people are going to do as they wish. I simply state that we have seen this play out already on live and the results were not good.

One final thought:
I would suggest not assuming things written on any forum is a personal attack, but, again, to each there own. No need to flex your internet muscles -- it's not impressive....

Thu 23 Apr 2020 7:34 AM by Noashakra

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Apr 2020 8:16 PM
i think its the "It's a game and a game is meant to be enjoyed by everyone, not just a select few who want everyone to play their way!" attitude you try to attach to yourself, but in reality you mean the opposite.

just my opinion discussing with you

it's exactly what I think when he posts. By everyone he means he and his friends

.

Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:47 PM by tyrantanic

It's always easier to blame the devs for a problem that can be fixed by the community.

Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:54 PM by inoeth

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:47 PM
It's always easier to blame the devs for a problem that can be fixed by the community.

thats basicly true, but what do you want to tell us with this statement?
do the players turn this server into live? can we stop it by changeing our behaviour?
i am confused

Fri 24 Apr 2020 7:50 PM by tyrantanic

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:54 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:47 PM
It's always easier to blame the devs for a problem that can be fixed by the community.

thats basicly true, but what do you want to tell us with this statement?
do the players turn this server into live? can we stop it by changeing our behaviour?
i am confused

The common complaint on this thread is that the weakest realm is ganged up on instead of the dominating realm. That's a player driven issue and not a developer issue. It's not an anomaly that the dominating realm(s) tend to have a BG up every single day for the majority of the day.

Fri 24 Apr 2020 9:24 PM by mattymc

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 7:50 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:54 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:47 PM
It's always easier to blame the devs for a problem that can be fixed by the community.

thats basicly true, but what do you want to tell us with this statement?
do the players turn this server into live? can we stop it by changeing our behaviour?
i am confused

The common complaint on this thread is that the weakest realm is ganged up on instead of the dominating realm. That's a player driven issue and not a developer issue. It's not an anomaly that the dominating realm(s) tend to have a BG up every single day for the majority of the day.

It's not about BG's -- there are BG's up on all 3 realms; really not much of a difference. BG's decline as population declines or specific leaders get fed up much more than a lack of BG's causes population to migrate. It IS a player issue, yet how the DEV's address it can be significant. It was never addressed on live; how did that turn out?

Sat 25 Apr 2020 1:14 PM by Pops999

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:48 PM
Every game has rules; every game has advantages and disadvantages; no game whose design is to be a 3 realm Player v player fight should reward people for being cowards and taking objectives that, for all intents and purposes, are undefended and then REWARDING for that action -- it's a game, not a gift...

Mattymckid playing a video game for free still calling people playing a video game cowards.

So brave.

Sat 25 Apr 2020 1:24 PM by mattymc

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Sat 25 Apr 2020 1:14 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Apr 2020 11:48 PM
Every game has rules; every game has advantages and disadvantages; no game whose design is to be a 3 realm Player v player fight should reward people for being cowards and taking objectives that, for all intents and purposes, are undefended and then REWARDING for that action -- it's a game, not a gift...

Mattymckid playing a video game for free still calling people playing a video game cowards.

So brave.

Touched a nerve there son? I suppose you think running over people/groups with 3,4 or 5 x the numbers or PvE for RP is Heroic?

Mon 27 Apr 2020 12:28 AM by tyrantanic

mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 9:24 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 7:50 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 6:54 PM
thats basicly true, but what do you want to tell us with this statement?
do the players turn this server into live? can we stop it by changeing our behaviour?
i am confused

The common complaint on this thread is that the weakest realm is ganged up on instead of the dominating realm. That's a player driven issue and not a developer issue. It's not an anomaly that the dominating realm(s) tend to have a BG up every single day for the majority of the day.

It's not about BG's -- there are BG's up on all 3 realms; really not much of a difference. BG's decline as population declines or specific leaders get fed up much more than a lack of BG's causes population to migrate. It IS a player issue, yet how the DEV's address it can be significant. It was never addressed on live; how did that turn out?

Of course it's about BGs because that's the playstyle that participates in RvRvR. BG leaders decide whether to gang up on the dominate realm or pick on the "weak" realm. Population inevitably shifts for a variety of reasons (new players, players quitting, players trying other realms/classes, lack of leadership, etc). That's the nature of the game. It's intrinsically unfair.

Mon 27 Apr 2020 12:51 PM by mattymc

tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 12:28 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 9:24 PM
tyrantanic wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 7:50 PM
The common complaint on this thread is that the weakest realm is ganged up on instead of the dominating realm. That's a player driven issue and not a developer issue. It's not an anomaly that the dominating realm(s) tend to have a BG up every single day for the majority of the day.

It's not about BG's -- there are BG's up on all 3 realms; really not much of a difference. BG's decline as population declines or specific leaders get fed up much more than a lack of BG's causes population to migrate. It IS a player issue, yet how the DEV's address it can be significant. It was never addressed on live; how did that turn out?

Of course it's about BGs because that's the playstyle that participates in RvRvR. BG leaders decide whether to gang up on the dominate realm or pick on the "weak" realm. Population inevitably shifts for a variety of reasons (new players, players quitting, players trying other realms/classes, lack of leadership, etc). That's the nature of the game. It's intrinsically unfair.

In that sense, I don't disagree. How does the game help promote some form of population balance?

BG leaders will do what gets their BG's RP easiest ---- this is where it IS or should be a Dev issue, make it most profitable to actually fight not ignore, avoid, nor task <read PvE for RP>. Consider both positive and negative reinforcement to PROMOTE the designed 3 realm game. We only have to look at live to see what happens when the DEV's don't consider it their problem.

Mon 27 Apr 2020 1:58 PM by Sepplord

i know how much hate "freebie-RPs" get, but imo there should be a rewardsystem in place for people that get killed in RvR...

There is such a thing for 8vs8 cleanfights, and it seems to be working out quite well. It makes sure that even if you get rolled fight after fight you at least don't go empty.
There is nothing for all other sorts of engagement though. Getting (low) RP rewards for fighting a strong enemy and losing wouldn't break the game in any way or more than giving out RP's for raiding structures with no enemies around.

Maybe, to limit suicide-farming (although i don't believe it would be a big problem....there were complaints about it with tasks) limit it to lvl35+ and maybe connect it with cooldowns being used on the enemy side.

Aka. you stand around afk and get farmed = no pity-RP for you

But if a fullgroup tries to bumrush your trio, and you get them to blow purge/ST/BoF or similar you get a few bonus-RP. Maybe also when long cooldown abilities are used, like instant-heals/Instant-mezz/etc...
Make the reward scale with amount of tools used, or just make it a flat amount.

Make fighting people a worthwhile activity, no matter if you are on the bottom or the top of the feeding chain.

Just have some trigger, that only gives this payout to the losers (and ofcourse make the payout low enough that it doesn't become a prime-source of RP)

Mon 27 Apr 2020 3:35 PM by gotwqqd

Seems like a lot of changes come because a few people keep some threads going on and on about a mechanic.
Keep it on top and long .... nerf.
CIP Gtaoe

Wed 29 Apr 2020 12:34 AM by Pops999

[/quote]
Touched a nerve there son? I suppose you think running over people/groups with 3,4 or 5 x the numbers or PvE for RP is Heroic?
[/quote]

Firstest with the mostest McKid. Overwhelming force. This is a realm war. Not an arena.

Handing out free rp's for sheeple like me keeps me in the game. You afraid of the sheep getting a level or two to catch up? Who's the coward again?

How is your gameplay any different? You aren't looking for a fair fight. Isn't there a flag for that?

Wed 29 Apr 2020 10:30 AM by Patron

When people want to be heroic, stop playing Daoc and go to get a firefighter or a nurse.
THis is a game yo hangstayed...

RP´s for be a part in rvr is the best what this server is decided.
In the game of wolfs and sheeps, every side is needed and there need to be rewarded to go in rvr.

And the refrain from doing so like Phoenix is the biggest mistake a prominent freeshard did.

Wed 29 Apr 2020 12:54 PM by mattymc

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Apr 2020 12:34 AM

Touched a nerve there son? I suppose you think running over people/groups with 3,4 or 5 x the numbers or PvE for RP is Heroic?
[/quote]

Firstest with the mostest McKid. Overwhelming force. This is a realm war. Not an arena.

Handing out free rp's for sheeple like me keeps me in the game. You afraid of the sheep getting a level or two to catch up? Who's the coward again?

How is your gameplay any different? You aren't looking for a fair fight. Isn't there a flag for that?
[/quote]

Look junior, if you actually learned your toon and the game you would realize that template, programmable keyboards/mice, nor RR can make up for craptastic play --- you take stuff entirely too personally <not surprising> and want things handed too you -- again, no surprise. Do I care --- nope, but I have seen this dance wipe a solid game before. Me thinks you do protest too much.

My gameplay --- I prefer actually fighting other players --- I prefer being rewarded for winning an equal fight or even an underdog fight. I dont care if it's 1 v 1, small, 8 or 100....all can be fun. While there is no way for the devs to rate quality of play, they can affect rewards with numbers...and I happen to think they should.

Wed 29 Apr 2020 1:16 PM by Sepplord

is there any scenario where the loser of a fight gets more RP than the winner? Rewards for winning and killing people aren't the issue, they are fine.

My personal issue (issue is a hard word...more like point for improvement) would be to elevate the rewards for people who lose fights above those that don't participate in fights with other players.
Someone should not go out, lose a fight and then think: "dammit, had i just AFKed the tower with the zerg instead of looking for a fight...then i would at least have gotten some RP".
The system is already there, putting up a good fight near a tower and losing it already gives a nice RP-Tick later. The areas are just too small and in proximity of guards that skew the fight itself and turn good fights into meh ones often

Wed 29 Apr 2020 5:35 PM by tyrantanic

I think the task system is fine for the most part barring a few tweaks. Removing RPs earned for taking empty keeps / towers and killing guards would be fine with me. It would also be nice for /fairfight to have a RP reward for solo and small mans like /gvg (?500 RPs per fight?). Other than that, I don't see what else the dev team could really do to address the perceived problem without forcing a playstyle.

Wed 29 Apr 2020 11:42 PM by mattymc

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Apr 2020 1:16 PM
is there any scenario where the loser of a fight gets more RP than the winner? Rewards for winning and killing people aren't the issue, they are fine.

My personal issue (issue is a hard word...more like point for improvement) would be to elevate the rewards for people who lose fights above those that don't participate in fights with other players.
Someone should not go out, lose a fight and then think: "dammit, had i just AFKed the tower with the zerg instead of looking for a fight...then i would at least have gotten some RP".
The system is already there, putting up a good fight near a tower and losing it already gives a nice RP-Tick later. The areas are just too small and in proximity of guards that skew the fight itself and turn good fights into meh ones often

It's a solid idea though I think hard to code/make work --- but that is the concept that is needed. While it would never fly, I almost think you need negative incentives for taking the easy route... but, again not sure it is even workable.